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Grencia Mars Elijah Guo Eckener ([info]jazzchagren) wrote,
@ 2007-10-25 11:38:00

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Current music:Bright Eyes - Easy/Lucky/Free

[info]voicesinmyhead prompt #3: What are your thoughts on love?
Love? Gren smiles slowly, as if drawing it up from somewhere deep within him, and runs a hand through his hair, trying to brush it back off his face. Few and far between, recently. You don’t mind if I smoke, do you?

He pulls a cigarette from a box in his pocket and lights it with a lighter, which he then sets on the table to give his hands something to fidget with, instead of putting it away. He inhales deeply and lets the smoke settle down into his lungs some before exhaling. The feeling of warmth slowly settles in him, of an addiction soothed, or partial suffocation. These things, he thinks, are what love is. But that wasn’t an appropriate answer for such a broad topic.

It’s a miraculous thing, really. And it’s a miracle when you can get it. But I’ve come to believe that it’s not as integral to the world as some people would have you believe. I’ve seen men live for years thinking there wasn’t a soul anywhere who cared for them. He shrugs away a shiver.

The weird thing about love is that it’s so easy to mistake other things for it. I didn’t have a bad childhood. My mother loved me and did what she could for me, so why then, is it so hard for me to recognize love when I see it now? Why do we, I, search for it in places where it doesn’t exist? It’s so hard to catch. I’ve thought I loved men before, only to realize that wasn’t truly it.

I’ve seen love on other people. Julia loved Spike. Vicious loved Julia. In his way anyway, before he hated her. Love suited Julia, made her more beautiful. Love was a gall on Vicious. It turned everything he touched to cinders. A scar on his thigh pulses and his throat constricts. He’s still not able to control these responses to thoughts of Vicious. My love is usually just misguided and clumsy.

A large clump of ash falls off his forgotten cigarette and he lapses into silence, watching the smoke. Maybe it was appropriate after all. I really thought it would be easier to answer that question. I’m sorry for rambling. I think, more succinctly, that love is like smoke. It’s addictive and dangerous and full of chemicals that make you think you’re ok, even when you’re not. And if you do find it, you can’t touch it. It slips through your fingers, away as quickly as it came. For that short time though, its elation and joy and beauty. It’s so beautiful, and I would let it burn me with it to catch it again, just once.



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[info]il_valentino
2007-10-25 05:57 pm UTC (link)
"'na sera, Gren. Haven't seen you in a while." Cesare inclines his head in greeting, waves a little, fingers crooked and lax. "I'm sorry. I couldn't help overhearing. It's a bit of a sore topic, isn't it."


[and feel free to tell him to f*** off. - L]

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[info]jazzchagren
2007-10-25 06:20 pm UTC (link)
Gren nods in return and gives Cesare a small, but warm smile. He's still deep in his thoughts, somewhat distracted, but appreciates that there's someone around to pull him out of it. It has been a while. Have you been up to anything interesting?

Quiet, thoughtful. It can be. Such a bizarre thing. Dangerous and safe at the same time. And you never do know, do you?

Ah, there are people he would here. Cesare isn't one of them. *cuddles you both*

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[info]il_valentino
2007-10-25 07:33 pm UTC (link)
"Or worse, you only know when it's too late. - Do you mind if I sit?" he asks, but he certainly doesn't wait for an answer. Gren may be polite and softspoken - all of their encounters thus far were like that, but if the bits of biography they've exchanged are true, then no doubt Gren could and would make his point, should he prefer Cesare to move on.

"When it's too late to undo the damage and unsay the words." He swallows against the lump in his throat and shakes his head. "What you said was a bit like poetry. About the smoke, I mean. Ephemeral. - I used to joke about my sister's husbands that you never knew what was inside a man unless you cut him open, but... hell, I wouldn't have liked being a woman, back then."

Gren's still far away somewhere, maybe one of those outlandish and strange, no, those galactical places he's told him about, and Cesare keeps quiet for a moment, watching the ash at the tip of Gren's cigarette, growing, growing, falling.

"Have I been up to anything?" he repeats softly, rousing himself. "Hm. Not really. Long walks. Too much wine, possibly. Actually I'm dying to find a copy of the Times, or maybe look online, because the Vatican has released some rather arcane papers today. Nothing that concerns me, personally. But it always amuses me... the stuff they find on their back shelves."

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[info]jazzchagren
2007-10-25 08:19 pm UTC (link)
Ah. It's an agreement with the statement so much as it's an invitation to join him.

Mm..the things that were said, and the things that weren't. Communication is a bit of a double edged sword at times. Swords. Polished and sharp and good for many more things than what they were created for. He realizes that his smile must be a bit wicked, rueful. Gren pulls himself out of his reverie and looks at Cesare across the table as the other swallows and shakes his head. He's slightly distressed that he seems to have touched a nerve, but then, everyone had the thing that got to them, and that itself had nothing to do with him. Thank you. I always struggle a bit with words. They're harder to control than notes or numbers.

He smiles at the idea of Cesare on double dates with his sisters, even though he's pretty sure that's not how things went back then. Funny, to picture him looming over some smaller man with a dagger. Some brother I'm sure you were. But true. There are some men that shouldn't even be cut open, I wager. Never know what sort of demons you might be letting out in doing that. A bit as an afterthought, teasing. You think you'd find it easier to be a woman now?

He looks down at his cigarette as the heat draws closer to his skin and the ash falls on the table. The corner of his mouth dips slightly before he stubs it out in the ashtray. He needs to stop wasting things. Cigarettes, time.

Yes, lots of walking. It's a bit different knowing I can't die of hypothermia if I stray too far from my room. His smile is genuine and amused this time. And I didn't know that there could be such a thing as too much wine, but I understand what you mean. I think I need a hobby or something. A short laugh. Oh, that would be interesting to see. The secret letters of the Vatican. I imagine they're probably not as exciting as I'd like them to be though. How is that computer working out for you, by the way?

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[info]il_valentino
2007-10-25 09:42 pm UTC (link)
"The computer? Oh, lovely," he grins. "So much so that I'm wondering where all these swear words and curses come from every time I try to make the thing do something it clearly doesn't want to. The other day I discovered... bookmarks. I felt like Alexander the Great for the entire afternoon." Chuckling, he remembers his elation over finding something so glaringly obvious. "And it's on the computer that I found out about the Vatican: they've published the entire set of original case records of the trials against the Knights Templars today. Exciting stuff, this; really."

He doesn't add how much it irks and pains him - that even De Molay et altri would get their justice, at last, while his own name keeps being maligned.

"Some brother indeed. My sister was the best of us," he says after a pause, gaze serious. "She backed us and kept us together when we menfolk had made a mess of it." He looks at Gren's expressive, melancholic eyes and knows he can't tell him - maybe not yet, maybe not ever - that he's killed the man Lucrezia loved dearly. "But since you ask... yes, I do think women have it easier and better today, which is their right and fair share. Because even the highest-born, the best-educated, the loveliest women - my sister, if you will - they weren't much more than chattel. Marriages, in our circles, were political transactions." And if he ever could make it up to Lucrezia, betrayer and betrayed, the last who held him and treated him like a human being... Déu, he would.

"So... that all happened on cold Callisto?" he asks quietly.

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[info]jazzchagren
2007-10-25 10:27 pm UTC (link)
Cold Callisto. He echoes the words, sounding them out. The alliteration has an interesting ring to it. One he's sure he's heard before, but has bever been in the position to appreciate. No, cold Callisto was a bit of a reprieve. Though, there were a few instances where my past life came looking for me. For the most part that all happened on Titan, and a bit on Mars. It was... He doesn't know what to say, and he feels like he always says too much anyway. It's not right for him to be so melancholy when has almost everything he needs now. Almost. It was.

He smiles, his expression softening. It must have been nice, to have a large family. I was an only child. I had friends of course, but it wasn't quite the same. And yes, I can see what you mean, about the women. He plays idly with the lighter, rolling it over and over in front of him. That wasn't as common a practice when I was growing up, but I heard of it happening. I don't envy them. No one wants to be merely property.

A sharper laugh this time. And so you took your flags and went out to conquer the internet. I can just see it. It's always a good feeling though, when you discover something for yourself. Even if you do end up chiding yourself for not having done it sooner. Knight's Templar? I've heard the term before, but I'm not entirely familiar with what they were. Looks like I have something to look up now as well.

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[info]il_valentino
2007-10-26 07:38 am UTC (link)
"Mh. Isn't it ironic; haven't seen my flags in a long time, together with my laurels. Maybe I rested on them," he snorts softly. "And now I stake my banners between little buttons with letters on them." Waving a limp wrist in a pfft-gesture, he sits back and banters away. "Actually, one of these days I need to buy a fountain pen; we'll have to see yet whether the pen is mightier than the sword. Maybe I could stab someone with it? Someone in the Vatican, preferrably."

Until a minute ago, Gren looked a bit hazy around the edges, with that aura of old hurt that Gren himself just dismissed with a tentative, then a firmer "It was-", and Cesare wonders what really happened, out in the dark wilderness of out there, but he has a feeling he shouldn't pry.

"Oh, family," he shrugs, much more lighthearted than he feels. "Can't live with them, can't live without them. My brothers were a bit useless, truth be told. We choose our second families, past that." Too bad when that family lets you down as well.

Cesare's gaze trails off into nowhere, not without catching on the outline of Gren's shoulder and collarbone for a second.

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[info]jazzchagren
2007-10-26 01:58 pm UTC (link)
I imagine one could make a nice bed of flags and laurels. Tempting to stay there, tempting. He gives a chuckle at Cesare's gesture, and the image of him waving a pen around at a bunch of old men. Creative, I've never seen anyone stabbed with a pen before. You'd have to get one that was good and sharp, and be sure to go for a major artery. I'm not sure it'd do much good to just start jabbing them in the arm. On the upside, I imagine there are quite a few pens lying about the Vatican, so you'd never be without protection.

He's curious now, and that's always gotten the better of him. Useless? But you do get to be a bit choosier about those second families, sometimes.

He tilts his head a little and watches as Cesare goes off somewhere else, maintaining a calm that Gren has an idea might be more dangerous than any amount of pen stab wounds in the right circumstances.


Likes collar bones does he? ;) And hee! The pen bit makes me think of Mikami the fountain.
PSS. Cesare has carte blanche to ask anything he's got niggling around up there. <3

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[info]il_valentino
2007-10-26 05:00 pm UTC (link)
Gren's suggestion makes Cesare laugh out loud, and it feels good, warming - simply laughing like that, about something as graphic and wonderfully silly as stabbing stiff old farts, Burchard and Remulines maybe, stabbing them to death with one of the Mont Blancs he's seen the other day. "Ahhh, Gren. That's too good to be true. Prodding a prelate. But," he wipes tears of mirth from his eyes, "I'd rather have a sword, really."

Then he calms down a bit and sighs, too content to let the memory of his brothers ruin it now. "Oh, just... you know. Useless. Juan was rash and loud and inconsiderate, and Jofré just never seemed to grow a head. Sure, Jofré had it harder, being the youngest, and married to a harpy." Thinking of Sancia causes a lopsided smile. Harpy she may have been, but easy. Easy enough to cheat on her lawfully wedded, pimply husband with both of his brothers. "But the few times our father set hopes on him, Jofré bungled it. Still, I... " -wish we'd had time to play like puppies, nipping at each other, be boys, be stupid, go hunting together, cuddle up, sleep in the sun-, "shouldn't complain. It wasn't such a bad childhood. How did we get to talking about this, anyway? Oh, right. Lucrezia. Despite everything, I think she was the only one of us who could love. Freely, without second thoughts or fear or ulterior motives."

He stretches, still strangely at ease. Gren's decisive "it was" seems to work its spell for a bit, and he's more than happy to let it. "Yes," he says, "you do get pickier. Doesn't mean it ends happier."

"Why would you say your love was clumsy and misguided, though?"

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[info]jazzchagren
2007-10-26 06:23 pm UTC (link)
Cesare's reaction is the most animated he's seen out of the man so far, and it makes him happy. It's infectious, and for a moment he forgets all about love or the lack thereof and just relishes in being somewhere as opposed to nowhere, and in being glad to have met people he could get on with. He smiles wider. Well, swords are more effective to that end, but you can't deny that a pen would have to be used with a certain amount of flare.

He nods in response. She would have to have, if she was the one holding you all together. Women are remarkably stong in that way. Some men are too, of course, but it's the women who usually end up being amazing. Even unconventionally, he admits to himself, as he remembers how Julia's love and lack thereof seemed to keep Vicious and Spike in orbit.

I couldn't think of any better adjectives? There's a small, self-deprecating laugh and he seems to study his hand as it rests on the table near the lighter. There's only been one person I thought I'd loved, and it turns out I really should have saved my breath. Clumsy because when it looked like he was returning my affections, albeit in an unconventional way, I didn't know what to do with them. And misguided because I couldn't tell I was being played all along. He shrugs.

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[info]il_valentino
2007-10-26 11:13 pm UTC (link)
"I almost find that hard to believe," Cesare remarks, "that somebody could string you along, see. You don't strike me as gullible, or a lovefool. But we all turn a bit idiotic when we think we're in love, don't we." There's no bitterness or pain in it now; he can say these words and mean them, too. Maybe it's just him growing reckless after not hearing Chiaro for a full week. "It's difficult to imagine you as being clumsy in any way," he adds with a vague smile. "Were you married? Or is that a sort of bond your time has done away with?"





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[info]jazzchagren
2007-10-27 05:42 am UTC (link)
He snorts and his smile goes a bit lopsided. My time was still very into marriage. Things probably didn't really change that much, between our times, just the stuff people could accumulate around them. But no, I wasn't married. It wasn't the kind of thing that would lead to marriage anyway. He leans back in his chair and thinks for a moment, his smile settling in, fading a little, but still present. Yes, we all can. I was a different person then. Young, and in a new place, and he was someone I respected and looked up to very much. It wasn't an uncommon unraveling of emotions, just the wrong person.

He looks back up at Cesare and grins. I've had lots of practice since then, in not being clumsy in most ways, but we all have to start somewhere.

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[info]il_valentino
2007-10-27 11:14 am UTC (link)
"Very true." With a pondering smile, Cesare looks back into the distance, recalling his clumsy, drunken passes at Michelotto; the ones that made him want to die on the spot. "We're very much like puppies, in our first fumblings... a lot of falling over own feet and coming too early," he laughs.

It hasn't escaped him, that "he", but he gives no other sign of acknowledgement than a tilt of the head and a slight quirk of the lip, hidden now, because his gaze has drifted back to his own feet.

"Mh, see, I was married - married, like I said, because it was convenient in cementing an alliance. It didn't stop her from loving me, in a way I probably didn't deserve. I never saw her again, after our honeymoon." He'd tried to get her out of France, get her to Italy, for a while. And then he'd forgotten about her.

"Do you think it was" - holding his breath, he searches for a word - "inevitable, your falling in love with him?"

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[info]jazzchagren
2007-10-27 09:53 pm UTC (link)
He can laugh at that, his first fumblings having been what they were with other students at parties whom he certainly didn't want to see on campus later. Ah yes, and the walk of shame and all the other things that go with young lust. I think if there's an over arching entity, it must spend a lot of time laughing at us.

Did you miss her? He kicks himself internally as soon as the words are out, because he's sure that the information would have been volunteered if Cesare had wanted it known. I'm sorry, you don't have to say. I think, from what I remember, arrange marriages had about the same statistics as any other marriage. In my time anyway. There's just something about people that makes them capable of finding love where it wasn't a possibility before. Certainly hard to keep us down.

Inevitable? He follows Cesare's gaze to his feet and studies the immaculate state of Cesare's shoes next to his own, which are still scuffed and dirty from snowy terrain. I...don't know if it could have been avoided or not. I used to try and reason it out, which is really pretty futile when it comes to emotions. It certainly didn't make me feel any better. And I wonder if I could have just kept it physical, you know? I'd done that before. It is possible for me to not lose myself completely. There are a lot of factors, which I'm sure you know. But...inevitable? The word has a ring of finality to it that breaks and falls about him like spent shells.

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[info]il_valentino
2007-10-28 01:25 pm UTC (link)
"The walk of shame? Cosa é questo?" Cesare inquisitively cocks his head. "I've never heard this expression. Although I think I can imagine what it might look like." The picture is vivid enough for him to chuckle into his collar. "Yes, the human capacity to be complete and utter idiots must be very dear to our respective Gods. Especially the ridiculous antics of humans in heat. Not belittling the experience, mind, once one gets the hang of it."

He snorts again, because the double-entendre went straight over his own head. "No, no, don't worry about it," he hastens to answer. "If I have to be very honest about it... no, I didn't miss her. She was a kind girl... a little bland maybe? I could have come to respect her, perhaps even honour her as my wife like she hoped, if we had had more time. It already marred things that everybody knew she was second-best. Well, not second-best, but the second choice. I'd wanted Carlotta of Aragon, and got Carlotta of Navarra instead." He lifts his shoulders, makes a helpless little noise. "She was very young, very impressionable. And I left her with child, and the French disease as a souvenir. Makes me quite the pig, doesn't it."

He expects Gren to recoil at this, and he's not quite sure why he's even said it. He hardly ever feels the need to confess - even back in the confession booth he used to lie till the boards creaked - and it's unfair to expect absolution from Gren now. Gren, whose hair falls in a soft curtain of black, occluding his eyes. Cesare's gaze follows it down to where it nearly reaches Gren's wrists.

"I'm sorry if I stirred unwelcome memories," he continues, softer, distractedly. "My time used to believe in the workings of Fate and Fortune and Destiny, and whenever we did something we couldn't quite explain, we'd say it was inevitable because it was destined." Gren looks up now, and there's something in his eyes that Cesare can't quite place.

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[info]jazzchagren
2007-10-28 11:21 pm UTC (link)
Laughing. It was just an expression from the time. Actually probably for some time before as well, but it's one of those legacies university students never quite get rid of. It's basically when you're slinking back to your apartment or dorm or whatever dressed in the same clothing you were in when you left the night before, ostensibly because you had picked them up off someone else's floor and thrown them on to beat a hasty retreat.

French disease? I don't believe I'm familiar with that one, but it certainly doesn't sound pleasant. There's a hesitant look about Cesare, and Gren's sensitive to the fact that he's probably supposed to be shocked and appalled by the news. He holds his facial expression in careful check, his smile not fading entirely. God knows he's done things he's not proud of in his time. And it musn't have been easy, knowing she could never be the one you wanted her to be, but I don't really think it's my place to think one way or the other of it. None of us would be who we are without who we were.

No, not at all. He lifts his head and looks at Cesare, pondering the idea of destiny. He brushes his hair back with one hand and shakes his head a bit, trying make the single strands fall away from his face. It looks like a localized shiver. It's really sort of ok. Moreso than it was, anyway. Sum of the parts and all. Making it destined brings up all sorts of interesting questions though. Like, was it deserved? Was my karma in the negative, were I to believe in such? Was it a lesson instead? Who hands out destiny? I could be here all night I'm sure, asking inane questions though, so I won't.

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[info]il_valentino
2007-10-29 11:03 am UTC (link)
Now it's Cesare's turn to laugh, even if it's an apologetic, timid laugh. "No, see, we never attached that much depth to the question of Fate. It was more of a blanket explanation for misadventures, especially those of the less rational type. Kind of" - he throws his hands in the air, deliberately exaggerating the timeless Italian gesture of "eh, now what?!" - "like this. We didn't necessarily enquire beyond that," he snickers. "And it probably wouldn't do to apply it to your quandary. It's water down the Tiber, isn't it? Just like Carlotta is gone, and I can't undo it. Would I even undo it? The disease part, obviously. Today that's peanuts. Back in my time it was new, and ugly. But I would probably still marry someone if their dowry were a kingdom."

He slumps forward a little, rubbing his chin. "Or maybe not. Like you said. Who we were determines who we are, to an extent. Then again, I don't think the psyche of the male animal has changed all that much, in the past 500 years." It's certainly not changed the way he looks at Gren's neck, and the indomitable cascade of hair.

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[info]jazzchagren
2007-10-29 06:34 pm UTC (link)
He leans his head forward a little in a small nod. Water down the Tiber, yes. Allowing himself a bit of a sly grin. Well hell, I might marry someone if their dowry was a kingdom as well. I wonder how many kingdoms there are to give out these days. He scratches his neck in mock thought.

Oh no, it hasn't changed very much at all. The cave men fought and rutted and we do too. It's just the natural balance of things. He uses both hands to tuck his hair behind his ears, now that it's out of his face. Still grinning. I can't imagine it would really be much better any other way. At least we're nominally entertained this way.

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[info]il_valentino
2007-10-29 06:52 pm UTC (link)
"Do let me know if you hear of a marriable realm," Cesare says, happy to play along. "I'd even take a minor principality, make you minister in recompense. Or any other position that would guarantee you'd never have to work again." Ruffling his hair, then smoothing and pulling it back, he closes his eyes for a second, sighs softly. "Would be nice, wouldn't it? Well. A man can dream."

And he wonders, wonders, what sort of man it was that Gren fell for, in his strange world high above and far beyond. The natural balance of things. If it was a killer, a soldier, a cold-eyed beauty from an even stranger race. Hm.

"Ecco. Thats the spirit, nominally entertained. Which reminds me," Cesare's voice goes up a bit to announce a shift in topics, "I've heard your praises sung. Why don't you regale us with your playing at the café sometime?"

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[info]jazzchagren
2007-10-29 07:39 pm UTC (link)
You'll be the first I tell. I'd probably be bored not working though. Maybe if there was some job where I got to wander around a lot.

He's pleased that word has gotten out, but he doesn't even begin to know who would have said anything. He feels a small touch of pride and sits up just a bit straighter. I'd have to work it out with the owner and the waitress I believe, which I honestly hadn't thought of. It might be nice, playing for people who might actually pay attention. At the hotel I'm mostly just ambiance, white noise, you know?

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[info]il_valentino
2007-10-30 05:47 pm UTC (link)
"White noise... I'm not familiar with the term, but it's highly suggestive." Cesare nods. "Nothing to vouchsafe it won't be the same at the café, but you could put up a sign; that might attract a few more interested patrons."

And he would like to see and hear that, actually, especially after he's taken note of the subtle change in Gren's bearing.

"Music has changed so much," he continues, on the verge of losing himself in thought. "Even the instruments don't look the same. Heh, you're not going to believe this; the other day I went into a record store to buy a few things that would play on the computer, and... " - stunned shake of the head - "the staff knew none of the names I was looking for. I suppose there's a lesson in this," he sighs.

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[info]jazzchagren
2007-10-30 08:09 pm UTC (link)
Ah, it's just the term for something in the background that kind of fills in the silence, but that isn't remarkable enough to be truly paid attention to. A place like the cafe might be ideal though. I don't need attention really. I'm used to people carrying on their own conversations. Sometimes with others, and sometimes with their own consciousses, he thinks, remembering nights at the Rester house where you could have heard a pin drop between songs. That didn't mean that anyone was really listening. At the hotel they're not even in one place though. Always walking in and out with luggage and crying children. It's a little unnerving, even when I'm just smoking on the porch.

A lesson, yes. It's a subject that's close to his heart, and he can't help but smile at the way Cesare looks off, lost in some other time that Gren considers long ago lost to the pages of dusty manuscripts. I imagine I'd have some of the same problem with artists who haven't even been born yet. Though, I am at a bit of an advantage having studied music from even before your time and then up through.

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[info]il_valentino
2007-10-30 10:06 pm UTC (link)
"I would have said a lesson in vanity", Cesare thought out loud, weaving his fingers in his lap, then unweaving them one pair at a time, "if these masters hadn't been considered the greatest artists. And," he looks up, almost a bit desperate now, "and they were good, too: humble, god-fearing men, although their services were sought after all over Europe. Sure, they had their quirks and shortcomings, but..." He falls silent for a second. "It just pains me to see them forgotten, I guess. I thought art would survive us. The buildings we commissioned, the missas we had sung, the statues we had chipped for our grave markers."

Chewing his lower lip, he indulges in some more of the black gall, then sighs. "Can't be helped, can it. How much amazing music you must know," he cocks his head at Gren, grins, aghast at the irony. "Squalling children and sweaty luggage carriers. Doesn't sound like an audience to me."

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[info]jazzchagren
2007-10-31 01:36 pm UTC (link)
It's not my preferred audience, no. He reaches out for the lighter again and slowly spins it with his pointer finger a few times as he thinks. And I know a bit for sure, but it wouldn't be hard to catch you up. He stops fiddling with the lighter and looks up. There's only what, five hundred years or so? And a lot of it isn't really worth it. No, not hard at all.

Vanity, and time. There's a break in Cesare's voice, as if he's just realized the extent of the distance between himself and these great musicians for the first time. If there's one thing that's certain it's that everything will change with time. Whether that's a comfort or a fear depends on the situation.

Nothing likes to be forgotten though. I'm sure we'd be able to find them again if we really looked. I don't know about now, but in my time record stores weren't always the best place to look for something specific like that.

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[info]il_valentino
2007-10-31 03:18 pm UTC (link)
There's only what, five hundred years or so. It's five hundred years exactly, a discovery that's had him trembling and retching all over again the other day, feeling for the entry point of the lance under his shoulder before reassuring himself that he's whole, and breathing, and not naked in the mud.

"You don't think there's much to catch up with?" He jerks his chin forward, a little belligerently, but mostly in good humour. "Then I bow my head to you. You must be quite the prodigy."

"I'm sorry," he mutters after a pause, looking at Gren. "That came out rather barbed, didn't it. Just goes to show how slow I am in catching up. And I don't envy you the task of going back in time. You must be chafing," he concedes with a lip-bitten nod.

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[info]jazzchagren
2007-11-01 08:28 pm UTC (link)
Gren's hand stops fidgeting on the table. He pulls his head back and his chin up slightly, rebuffed. He hadn't meant to belittle Cesare, but he admittedly shouldn't have put the expanse as lightly as he had. They were all feeling it. No, not really. That didn't quite come out like I wanted it to. It was more of a commentary on music in the last several years than on my own skill. Or on you.

He settles again with the apology, a little embarassed, because it's his fault to begin with. He and his big mouth. Shouldn't he be the one apologizing? I apologize, too. What I guess I should have said is that there's a massive backlog, even at this point, but there is certain to be genres your more fond of and that it will be easier to go from there. And we're all chafing, in some way or another.

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[info]il_valentino
2007-11-01 08:59 pm UTC (link)
"Mh. That we are." Cesare sighs under his breath and dips his head, nervously pulling curls from his collar to stop them from tickling. "Now I see what you mean though. Much like I discarded some of the greatest scriptures from before my time and held on to others because I felt they spoke to me more," he nods tersely.

He smiles warmly, a peace offering. It won't do to alienate and anger one of the few people in Margate he feels safe with, feels well-liked by, just because a few bad nights, the changing weather, and his temper got the better of him. "And so, what genres are you fond of? Chances are I won't have heard of them. Feel free to illuminate me."

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[info]jazzchagren
2007-11-03 11:47 pm UTC (link)
He nods. Yes, exactly like that.

The smile relaxes him, though he can't help but shake the feeling that he's tread where he shouldn't. He makes a small mental note to pay more attention to what he's saying, in general. Well, I'm a student of Jazz. That was the one I fell hard for in school. All music is evocative, but jazz has an extra layer. Something about playing it makes me feel like I'm giving voice to my soul.

He laughs then, softly and places his palm on his forehead, wipes his hand down in his face in embarassment. And of course, then I say things like that, which is why I should just stick to music. I also enjoy a bit of what I consider classical. Music that grows and heaves in large waves of dramatic sound that can either wash you out with it or leave you shivering on the shore. But that was mostly composed in the 17th and 18th centuries, so it would be new to you. And rock bands from my present time with all of the subgenres that includes. I won't find them at the record store either. I might go down and see if I can find anything close to though.

He tilts his head a bit. I'm sure that made no sense. I can pull together a list that we can find samples of.

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[info]il_valentino
2007-11-04 03:18 pm UTC (link)
Great. Now he's made Gren miserable and malcontent in turn. "Relax, man," Cesare laughs, both encouragingly and relieved, "I was just being crabby. Maybe scared I won't make it, all this running to catch up with things. So I'll have to kindly ask for your patience with me."

Music that grows and heaves, evocative... he'd watched and heard Jaime play his oud, sometimes, and it had hurt, hurt a fucking lot, because it had made him feel Jaime's pain and despair, too. He'd listened to Desprez playing at Lucrezia's wedding while everybody was dancing and chatting, and only Jofré's pudgy babyface had lit up at the music, radiant with joy of being transported somewhere; far away from his cunt of a wife probably.

"It does that," he nodded, struggling against the mire of memories. "Music, I mean. Lift us." Then, a little lighter, "Jazz. What a strange word. Maybe you can give me a primer of tunes you like. That'd be quite the privilege." He holds Gren's eyes, then lets his gaze travel down to Gren's mouth.

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[info]jazzchagren
2007-11-06 03:23 am UTC (link)
He relaxes his fingers and smiles at the anachronysm of someone so seemingly well brought up using 'man' like a college student. He chuckles lightly and runs both hands through his hair and down to the nape of his neck before returning them to his lap. Heh, sorry. I think I was feeling a bit of the same thing there for a moment. Or for the week. But you seem well prepared, compared to some of the others I've spoken to at least. It's not unusual to feel like you're without a paddle in any new place, let alone one as strange as this. I'm hoping it'll pass.

Gren fumbles in his pocket, feeling the need for another cigarette. He lights it with the lighter and then goes back to spinning the lighter round on the table top with his free hand.

He nods. It can. Though it can also prolong a darker mood, if one wants it to. He gives a small smile. Not that that's meant to be commentary mind you, it just happens from time to time with people I've spoken to. And it is a strange word. From what I remember it used to mean something with pep or vigor. No one's really sure how it became attributed to a particular music style. Other than the idea that maybe Jazz is the Blues with a little bit of life blown into them.

Exhaling out of the side of his mouth, much like a sigh, he taps the cigarette into the ashtray. That might be an interesting activity. It's been quite some time since I've had the privelege of just sorting through music or even listening to those things I used to love most. Didn't get many discs on Callisto, mind. He licks his lips quickly before putting the tip of the cigarette back into his mouth. Tell me about your masters? I'd really like your contemporary point of view on them.

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[info]il_valentino
2007-11-07 02:26 pm UTC (link)
Something about Gren's off-hand, casual gesture, the simple act of combing his hair with both hands tells Cesare that Gren isn't quite aware of how beautiful he is. Cesare is a little startled that his brain provides the word beautiful instead of handsome, so he tears himself away from that line of thought and scrambles, mentally, to catch up with Gren.

Gren's voice has become deeper and gravelly though, and he almost sounds as if he's talking to himself, or maybe he's addressing the lighter, and Cesare nods, pensive and losing himself again in older, remembered tunes. "You're right, of course. In that sense music is like a magnifying glass."

Wrapping one arm low around his ribs in an attempt to ward off a sudden draught from the outside, he curls in on him self a bit. Cold Callisto, he had said. Probably not a place he himself would fare well. And it sounds like an outpost, too, if music was a rarity.

"Hm." He's tapping his chin with a finger. "I haven't really studied music like you, so I wouldn't know the proper terms, but... they were all Ars Nova. Like... 'new wave'? New Art, to be precise. In so far as they did away with Ars Antiqua, which was... pretty monotonous. Think Gregorian chant: luminous - and deadly boring. Whereas with Ars Nova, they'd have more... well, more voices. Oh," he laughs out loud, "I'm making a mess of this. They'd weave the voices and instruments in harmony and counterpoint, and... I really think you'd need to hear it, though."

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[info]jazzchagren
2007-11-13 12:49 am UTC (link)
That's why it's so amazing. He had barely heard Cesare, lost in memories of symphonic orchestras from when he was in college, and sneaking down to the the jazz club odd nights before he left home. Why I've attached myself to it. It does things words can't.

He shakes his head a little, pulling himself out of his head, and some loose hairs fall forward. Looking up he sees Cesare shrink in on himself a bit. He wouldn't presume to hold himself as regally as Cesare, or know what's going on behind the furrowed brow, but he imagines he's looked a great deal like that before.

New Wave, huh? He gives an amused smile. There was a movement on Earth, that re-occured from time to time even after most of the population had moved across the galaxy, called New Wave. Lots of synth and men in eye liner.

The proper terms aren't really important, unless you plan passing a test of some sort. But I think I know what you mean. He gives a light chuckle. Like rondellus? And if I remember correctly that used to get people in trouble. All those secular tunes and love poems over the sacred form. He cuts his eyes at Cesare, teasing. What a rogueish time you come from.

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[info]il_valentino
2007-11-13 05:50 pm UTC (link)
Stretching his arms above and behind his head, trying to get his circulation going now that he's caught a first chill, Cesare laughs, then slumps forward again. "I may not know what a... synth? is, but men in eye-liner sounds rather grand." Wry grin. "The doe-eyed boys in the more specialised Roman brothels wore make-up. Da Vinci's lovers, too; Giacomo Salai did, for instance. But there was nothing particularly musical that went along with that. I guess the true vanity must lie in doing something and then calling it New, with capital N," he smiles.

The slant of Gren's eyes hasn't escaped Cesare, and it looks infinitely endearing, Cesare thinks. Rogueish, eh? "You're right, amico mio. Rondi and motets that weren't entirely devotor virginis but lauded a girl's white thighs... poems in the vernacular instead of Latin... no more soaring Gothic cathedrals and grim chants. It was a liberation of sorts."

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[info]jazzchagren
2007-11-21 02:38 am UTC (link)
Gren props his arm on the table and rests his chin in his hand. He leans forward, interested. A liberation from the rigors of structured worship, or from God himself? He watches Cesare stretch, fabric pulling with muscle moving underneath. Were you in need of liberation?

Smiling. It's a bit of a cop out, is what synth is. Synthesized sounds, waves of electronic backfeed or high pitched buzzing. There are lots of other things as well, and they add a bit, I guess, but they tend to take over the music as well. Harder to get to the character of a piece if it's being masked. He lets his eyes wander the room. It could be very grand. There was some amount of pageantry involved, and vanity yes. Truck fulls of vanity. Short laugh. With a capital V, I suppose.

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[info]il_valentino
2007-11-21 05:40 pm UTC (link)
One or two joints have just popped, and he feels a twinge under his shoulderblade. Not exactly in superb shape then. He's still sort of muscular, or at least the mirror tells him so, but all that cracking and popping... isn't good. He cuts the thought short and tilts his head at Gren. "Liberation, I? Well." Interesting question. Rather double-edged, too, in a way. "I think what there was to liberate me from... I took care of. Quite decisively. But if you're thinking of society as a whole then I'd say it was a necessary liberation, yes. It didn't go so far as some people would make you believe; the idea that man is the arbiter of his own fortunes etc... only a few of the select and privileged could afford that. And for every Neoplatonic Academy, there's a Savonarola. For every bit of light, there's an era of obscurantism that follows on its heels."

Cesare plucks on a hair or two, caught in the wristband of his watch. Gren makes him think, and he enjoys that - talking to someone so removed from one's own circles, it's easier to see things in sharp relief. It's virtually impossible for him though to follow what Gren says about synth. "Pageantry and vanity..." he chuckles. "Bene, that sounds familiar again. The bit before that was a little cryptic, I'll admit. So, these things are... quite big, I take it? Like an organ, perhaps?"

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[info]jazzchagren
2007-11-26 03:53 am UTC (link)
He listens and nods. Everything like that seems to go in cycles. Not only in the overarching way that effects all people with ages of invention and retraction, but in our own lives too. Sometimes you need saving, and sometimes you need to be saved from the saving. It's kind of annoying really. His lip quirks up a bit at the corner. You think you've made progress, and there you are, back at the beginning. But it keeps things interesting.

Gren lets out a short laugh, not at Cesare's expense, but at his readiness to understand. It elates him, a bit, to be able to feel ok being curious because the person opposite him seems to be also. Because the person opposite him isn't suspicious of it in the least. No, they can actually be quite small. Originally they looked like flat, electronic pianos. You could assign noises to the different notes or flip a switch and it would play the whole spectrum of notes as a different instrument. Or sometimes as if through a filter of noise. From when I left, and I'm assuming now, you can create the same effects with a computer and not have to physically play it.

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[info]il_valentino
2007-11-26 08:42 pm UTC (link)
"Do you think so? That we have to repeat... things?" Cesare peers at Gren from his unruly bangs. "That's. That's an unpleasant prospect. I would have thought that learning how to... do it better would prevent that." Words fail him all of a sudden; something that doesn't happen all that often.

Would you? Would you do it again, trying to bind me to you when you didn't even know what you wanted? I always knew what I wanted, Chiaro. The fact that you preferred to fuck my sister put a little dent in it.

Cesare rubs his cheek, feeling unwashed and sticky from the sea air, or maybe from the sudden flush the voice has just caused in him. "'Back at the beginning' sounds terrifiying, Gren. I mean. Madonna mia," he mutters, shaking his head.

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[info]jazzchagren
2007-11-27 05:43 am UTC (link)
His cigarette has smoldered itself almost down to the tip in his inatentiveness and he slowly stubs it in the ash tray, taking his time to think. Not the beginning of things, really. Not physically living your life over. Things are always changing, places, people, situations. But just...emotions. Ephemera. He knits his eyebrows together, trying to decide if there was a way he could muddle through it enough to explain it to someone else when he didn't quite understand it himself.

When he speaks again he starts slowly, softly. You know how sometimes you can feel a place. And that feeling becomes a point on a timeline, a beginning, a start of journey, an end. And you think you've lived past it and that you'll never be that person again and all of a sudden something hits you. Sometimes it's a thing or sometimes it's an emotional state. I don't know that it's...terrifying. It can be comforting. I guess that depends on what it is that's come back.

He leans back in his chair and sits, arms draped over the sides, looking at the curls in Cesare's hair, but not really seeing them. Then he gives a slow smile and focuses in on Cesare's eyes. I imagine that doesn't make any sense outside of my head. Sorry. He scrunches his nose and scratches the tip lightly.

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[info]il_valentino
2007-11-28 10:55 am UTC (link)
Gren's mind seems to spin away for a second, his thoughts weaving intricate patterns that, for some reason, remind Cesare of stone masonry: chiselled acanthus leaves and swooping buttresses reaching like fingers into heaven. He remembers a clear morning, standing under pine trees in campagna, looking across the Seven Hills, thinking... like he's thinking now, caught in a loop.

"Mh," he smiles, meeting Gren's gaze. "I believe I see your meaning."

Something nearly prompts him to say something stupid then, and he firmly shuts his mouth, deepening his smile.

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[info]jazzchagren
2007-12-07 02:55 pm UTC (link)
Gren contemplates sitting upright again, but he's comfortable now, so he settles for holding his neck straighter to give the impression that he's attentive. He shouldn't have apologized for simply speaking his mind, no matter how much sense it might have or have not made. That demon had been right, he needed to start owning up for his own existence instead of sopping about the place and wasting what time he had left.

He notices as Cesare sets his lips, closing the portal before any of those thoughts Gren could see swirling around behind his eyes could get through, and he feels a bit foolish as he says
What? But it's out now, and he won't apologize to himself again. He reminds himself that it's all about time.

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[info]il_valentino
2007-12-07 11:26 pm UTC (link)
"Oh, that..." Cesare feels caught out and sheepish, because he either says it now, or he better comes up with something, presto. Something ben trovato. Then he takes a breath and plunges ahead. There's ultimately no harm in it, is there?

"I'm afraid it doesn't pertain to our discussion. But... I just thought you have very lovely hair. Back," - in my time? What did that mean, time, when he'd cheated death and paid for it with five hundred years of being forgotten? - "back at home the ladies would have flocked to you. The men as well."

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